Crushing Culture
Hosted by: Deb Crush & Nic.
Producer & Social Media Manager: Jenn.
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Crushing Culture
Shiny Happy People - Reaction to Ep. 1 - Pt. 2
Imagine growing up in a world where misinformation is the norm and obedience is expected without question. A world where controversial beliefs about parenthood and child-rearing are deeply entrenched in your daily life. This episode takes a hard look at the lives of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar and the influence of the Institute of Basic Life Principles (IBLP) on their family and others alike, including notable figures like Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett.
We unravel the controversial narratives promoted by this organization, from encouraging families to have numerous children and raising them within the confines of their teachings, to the more sinister implications of their efforts to groom future influential figures. The episode also shines a light on the disturbing truth about how figures like the Duggars propagate medically inaccurate information about birth control and miscarriages, underscoring the urgent need for factual information in the media.
Taking a darker turn, we venture into the troubling world of abuse and cover-ups within religious institutions - a world where predatory behavior is hidden and the victims are silenced. We delve into the shocking details of the Josh Duggar scandal, examining how his parents attempted to hide his predatory behavior and the devastating impact this had on the family. Lastly, we discuss the dire consequences of religious indoctrination on children and emphasize the importance of a safe environment where they can express themselves and question authority. This episode is not just an exploration of controversial beliefs, but a call to action for transparency, truth, and safety in religious teachings.
how I grew up. They also believe in that same umbrella of protection, that same like God, pastor, husband, wife, children. So I found that very like. It was very triggering. But you know also like oh, I see you like yeah, I see what you're doing here.
Speaker 2:I see this bullshit, yep.
Speaker 1:Oh look, I even wrote people not equal to the government, people not equal with pastors that's, that's what they were saying, Yep.
Speaker 2:So those are all like the main players in the show. So, like, let's start talking about. I know that we both pretty much took chronological notes and I tried to make an outline but then it just turned into chronological notes, so let's just go back to the beginning. So you started talking about some of this stuff, so chronologically, you know, talking about 19 kids and counting some of the things that get lightly mentioned, actually because, remember, jim Bob did not grow up in IVLP, they were actually. What was it?
Speaker 1:Missionary Baptist Missionary.
Speaker 2:Baptist they're. They mentioned this very briefly, I don't know if you caught it, but they mentioned that both Michelle and Jim Bob's parents, so the husband of life both parents did not approve of the number of children that they were having and they show that little clip where they're like this is your new grandchild and then his dad's just like staring like he's motherfucker. Yes and it's. And they say like they were concerned for Michelle's health and whatever else.
Speaker 2:And so they actually were not approving of that lifestyle and also just like from a science perspective what are you just constantly pregnant? Okay, is your body just in a constant state of fucking pregnancy has to be too old to be having kids, like yeah, which also like I feel like they're having kids when she is too old to be having kids. Yes, well like it's like dangerous, not just for well, that's what they say.
Speaker 1:They say like the last baby she had.
Speaker 2:They want the 20, 20, the one before that.
Speaker 1:Okay, she had medical problems and they had to like have her in the hospital and then the baby was born early and like and like they talk, they briefly talk, touch about that, but like I always like him by the power of God like bitch by the power of science.
Speaker 2:Thank your nurse, thank your doctor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which I want to talk about, because so they talk about this in this episode and I think they bring it up again, but I definitely want to mention it. So they have Josh, their first kid, and then she gets pregnant again and she has a miscarriage. And they literally state I had this miscarriage because I was on birth control which is not possible, like that is not a thing. Medically is not a thing.
Speaker 2:No, they're just trying to birth control people out of getting pregnant it like it keeps your eggs where they're supposed to be.
Speaker 1:So, if you are already pregnant, that birth control is not going to cause a miscarriage. But they blatantly state that yes, and then say that they got on their knees and prayed for forgiveness for killing their child, and then God bless them with twins, which is mind blowing to me.
Speaker 2:Which also like I feel, some type of wave at shining up in people for not like explaining that a fact. Check on the screen, those things are not real Right, because you're going to have some motherfucker that watches that and thinks that that's the case.
Speaker 1:But also then, okay, well, what happened in number 20 then? Because they show the clip being like this, that there's no heartbeat. She's like oh, but like, was God punishing you then because you believed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what did you do Like?
Speaker 1:what happened there?
Speaker 2:They don't know we don't need an explanation, right, don't need an explanation.
Speaker 1:Birth control killed that kid. Yeah so that pissed me off entirely and I took notes on that.
Speaker 2:And I think that this is a good point to talk about, like why 19 kids?
Speaker 1:why 11 kids for Jim?
Speaker 2:Halls. One thing that Bill Gothard teaches is that the more blessings yeah the more children that you have, the more blessed by God that you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I could talk for hours about this. So, like I am going to really try to rain it in here. I took my Vagabants like well, on time before this, so hopefully it goes well. Well, they what his goal is. And this is going to sound insane because it is, but it is real and I want everyone to understand that like I am not over exaggerating this, I am not being crazy.
Speaker 2:He and there's a point in the episode where he like kind of states something that like alludes to it, and then they don't really extrapolate that at all. He wants them to have an abundance of children at all of his followers. So you look at Jim Bob and Jim Hall and Jim Bob and the Duggars kind of became the poster child for IBLP, very similar to and they make this comparison the way that, like Tom Cruise became the poster child for Scientology, because they are the perfect poster child for his world. They had almost 20 fucking children, jim Holtz, 11.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the purpose of having these children is that they can grow up in the teachings in the way of IBLP, so essentially brainwashing them into their beliefs when they because children don't know any better so that they can go out and spread the word of God. But by spreading the word of God, what they really mean is they're raising their children to be politicians, prominent community figures, so that they can push these agendas from top down Right. And if you think that that is crazy, I want to talk about this more later. But I really encourage you to look up your Supreme Court Justice, Amy Coney Barrett. Look her up and the people of praise disastrous which, like we could touch on this lightly.
Speaker 2:I feel like we could talk about that for, like an entire.
Speaker 1:That could be a whole episode.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to get too far into that, but like I'm going, to give you some research. I'm going to give you a couple of hooks, because I did do a little bit of research and I encourage you to do this on your own, because I would love to do that up to.
Speaker 1:I literally wrote down separation of church and state is a fucking joke. Yeah, I say, I wrote that note with my little red pen.
Speaker 2:Yes, they, these people don't believe that there should be separation of church and state, which is ridiculous Like this is a religious belief that you have.
Speaker 1:We're trying to run a country like every law that is passed, and you know it's hilarious.
Speaker 2:It's based on what's hilarious is, if our skin were a different color and we wore garbs that covered our whole face, people would call that terrorism. Yeah, right, yeah, they would look down on that. Yeah, but because it's all white men with their little glasses on nobody calls it for what it is.
Speaker 2:There are other countries that are run by your religious organizations that are also extreme in a different way Yep, the Taliban. What do you call those people? Terrorists, terrorists? This might seem very extreme for me to be making these fucking parallels because, like, maybe women do have slightly more privilege than people do in the Taliban right religions. They are now, yes, but they are not as far off as you know. No no, these religions were women have as little rights. Right, it's just the appearance of rights.
Speaker 2:And that's why I want people to look up the people of price. Yes, this is the religious organization that Amy Coney Barrett, her husband and her father are affiliated with and crack actively practice.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:When you research them, be very careful not to read the things that they say they are. And we got to dig deeper that people that are previous members of their are saying they're very particular on what that they put out into the public. They do not share their teachings.
Speaker 1:No, it's hard to find pictures and stuff. Yes, they scrub the internet of information. Yes, so that you can only they're trying to only let you find what they their narrative.
Speaker 2:Yes, you really have to dig deep to find out what's going on, what I was able to find and I dug around for a little bit this morning it is very it is very hard to find information on them, which should be scary on its own, it should be terrifying.
Speaker 2:Yes, in the age of information, there is a group of people, one of which holds a very high position in your government, is voting on laws and constitutional rights. Yes, you cannot find information about an organization that is 100% a part of her day to day life. Yeah, there should be a fundamental issue that everybody takes with this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially because their religion believes that you, you as a woman, you cannot make any right. Wait, wait, let me get to that, get there so the things that I found.
Speaker 2:There is a document that was published about the position that each person in the people of praise holds in their community. Yes, you will. Amy Coney Barrett held the title of handmade. I can't even make that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then they came out. I don't know if they were trying to backtrack like it sure as shit sounds to me like it but because they have no information publicized about that, I have no way of knowing if this is like them backtracking or if this is true. But they consider hand, they said they consider handmade a title of esteem because Mary was God's direct handmade. Give me a fucking break. Yeah, I'm in the middle of watching Handmaid's Tale right now. So you, like you, cannot convince me.
Speaker 2:No yeah handmade is a positive reference. It is not. It is not.
Speaker 1:I mean regardless if they gave Mary that term as handmade, it's still like degrading.
Speaker 2:Yes, like I'm not your handmade.
Speaker 1:I'm not your servant, like. That's what that means.
Speaker 2:Right, so like oh hey, you're the servant of God, so that's a compliment, very gaslighting. Yes, so thank you for that. Yes, so the other thing that I found, and it's interesting because they say one thing and then they try to make, they try to put lipstick on a pig, right, so men in this, in this religion, are the key decision makers, of course. But then they say but we encourage women to achieve, you know, education and high career achievements, right, why are they doing that, if matter the key decision makers, so that they can then influence decisions, not only in their spaces that they're working in, but also in the spaces of their, their wives and children or their daughters, essentially.
Speaker 2:So again, this woman is a Supreme Court justice, so I also found people that there were some. There were some people that have spoken out that have left the people of praise. There's very limited names attached to these and there's very limited statements, because there are some people that have spoken on the, on the premise of anon and like anonymity, and anonymity would have everyone.
Speaker 2:So they're probably scared somebody's going to be like to send this girl to a phonics class anonymity, because they're afraid of the repercussions from the people of praise or repercussions against relatives or friends of theirs that are still in people of praise, that they don't want them to experience any negative backlash, essentially whatever that means or maybe. But one of the quotes that I had found was somebody said that she was instructed at a young age by her elders not to emasculate their male peers by getting the better of them in conversations. In addition to that, they are taught, and I quote, obedience to authority and submit to headship, which is only men 100%.
Speaker 2:Okay, they are taught that women are to defer to men for decisions.
Speaker 1:Correct you can't make a decision unless you get permission first.
Speaker 2:Correct. And then this one was a whopper. So there was Hang on, let me read what I wrote. Okay, so there was a woman who gave a talk in the 1980s. That woman was Gianna Saliff, who is the wife of the founder or, I'm sorry, wife of the co-founder of the People of Praise. She gave a, you know, like a Ted Talk, like kind of a what do you want to call them? Like a convention? Yeah, like a talk at a convention Geared Towards Women in 1980. In 2015, in a People of Praise magazine called like Vines and Something I didn't even write it down somebody wrote an article for that magazine based on this talk from 1980. So I don't want people to think like this came from the talk in 1980. No, this article was written in 2015. Right, 35 years later, right, and it says it is important for you to verbalize your commitment to submission. Tell him what you think about things, make your input, but let him make the decisions and support them once they are made. I just threw up in my mouth that's your Supreme Court justice.
Speaker 2:That's your Supreme Court justice, people who, by the way, are appointed until literal death.
Speaker 1:Death in the fact, the fact that she replaced Earth-Pated Ginsburg. It's just a fucking it was the biggest fuck you to women on the face of the planet. You can't convince me otherwise. I agree the absolute biggest fuck you.
Speaker 2:That's why, like I think it's becoming, I think we're we've. Society has conditioned us. This is like a total political opinion. So sorry guys, but society has conditioned us to a point of our bar is so low for what we consider progress. It's no longer enough to be happy because it's a woman, it's no longer enough to be happy that it's a black man, a black woman, a person of color, a person of a certain type of race, like it's not enough anymore to say, well, at least we have somebody at a seat at the table Right, we're not there anymore. We should be past that. Our standards should be higher than that. What do these people stand for? I mean, you have a black man as a Supreme Court justice that is not an ally to his own people.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Like, call yourself a constitutional purist or whatever it is they fucking call themselves. Like all these people that sit on the Supreme Court are fucking bloggers with power. Like literally, there are people with opinions that have power, like this irrational amount of power to make a decision that some of them can't be trusted with that power. Like I'm not saying that that's every Supreme Court justice at all, right, but make no mistake about it. Like, after they make a decision I encourage you to go listen they have to make statements about why they voted one way or the other. If those statements are littered with opinion-based experiences, that's not what you're there for, right? You're actually appointed to those positions to rule based on the letter of the law, not based on your personal experiences.
Speaker 2:And if you look at the striking down of affirmative action, that just happens. Clarence Thomas that's his name, right makes an entire statement that is littered with distaste based upon his own personal experience at Yale, which is just wildly inappropriate. Whether you agree with him or not, you are not ruling based on your life's experiences. You are supposed to be ruling based on law, right? Like I don't know how else to make that more abundantly clear. And then you've got to get back to the religious aspect of things. You have Amy Coney Barrett sitting as a Supreme Court justice that firmly lives her day-to-day life as a public system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that she is not allowed to make decisions for herself without consultation from those higher than her and her chain of authority. And you're going to really sit there and believe that she puts that aside when she goes to work every day? Because I don't.
Speaker 1:She's got her husband on speed dial. Laren how should I vote today? Yeah, can you ask my dad? Can I prove that? Can you say I'm all like a head, a head chip, right, can I prove?
Speaker 2:that no, no, can we all use our heads? Yeah, like do some research.
Speaker 1:Does this summarize every day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even know if we could do a whole episode on this, because you can't fucking find any information about these people. I know they scrubbed the internet.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yes, so anyway, anyways.
Speaker 2:Back to Fricking jambot yeah. So this is how we got here. Is Bill Gofford is looking for this mass production of little minions, basically to go out and do essentially what the prime example that Amy Coney Barrett is Right and then infiltrate the government and other areas of your community that hold high ranking power to start influencing, which is hilarious, because what's the hottest topic in politics right now? People indoctrinating our youth. Oh yeah, sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Who, who, those drag queens Right Meanwhile?
Speaker 2:Let's take a step back and be rational for a half a second. Who? Who's indoctrinating anyone? Bill Gofford A religion yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're OK with all those people being imparted. Like nobody that runs for, like the highest powers in our government could ever run on a platform that was non I don't even want to say non-denominational isn't the word they could never run a platform on. Like an atheist platform, no, like somebody that does not personally, no chance whatsoever.
Speaker 1:A segment you would lose I mean our money literally says in God, we trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Wild Like, but then you're taught separation of church and state in school Okay. Which I feel like is only taught just to make you feel better about the whole thing and to close your eyes to what's really happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a smoking news. Oh yeah, yeah, like, oh no, no no, no, it's actually not a thing. It's like you know God, we trust Same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that's one of Bill Gotherd's teachings that comes up really early on in the show. So we talked a bit about this. Amy's the cousin yeah, doesn't grow up anything like them is on the show. But they're all the duggers who, again, are like the center of the show and the people that everyone's idolizing are kindly but definitively speaking against the way that Amy lives. Mm, hmm. So, yeah, people that are following this family and think that they're this model example, whether you think so or not, they're planting the seed in your mind Like, don't be like Amy, right, and that's televised on national television, right? And then we started. So this is the part where we pause that I think we could pick back up on. Jim Bob did get involved in politics.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:He held a seat in your house of representatives. He sure did. And then he ran for the Senate. And I want to stress to everyone my government classes in college and high school are failing me here. Is there a term limit on house of representatives? There is not in the Senate. I don't think there's a term limit in house of representatives either. I don't think so either.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you do have to keep running right, you have to keep running, but you could be elected a hundred thousand times.
Speaker 2:So that's why all your senators are ancient right now, which is ridiculous. Everything should have a term limit, including a Supreme Court justice. Nobody should be able to be. First of all, supreme Court justice is a whole nother animal, because you don't even have to be re upped, you're just literally appointed to death.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then a house of representatives and Senate, I guess is like a hair better because you have to keep going through re elections. But I would say that local elections are really tough. Like people always talk about how local, how much local elections matter. Yeah, but I think it's really hard in those positions of House of Representatives and Senate to make a wave and unseat somebody that's already been seated there, because people kind of go with what they know, unless there's a huge problem. So unless somebody is making egregious decisions, typically you're just going to continue to hold that position until you're either going to go run for a higher level position Because you'll see a lot of people go from like Senate to running for the presidency, or you decide that you're just done and you're not going to do this anymore.
Speaker 2:But your House representatives in your Senate are literally the people writing policy. They are the people that write and submit your laws, that sit and argue over each little detail in a bill to submit it Like that's what the House does, and then the House does that. They vote on the terms after they argue back and forth and granted like this is a very high level overview. This is not my strong student school, so like, if I make any minor error, please forgive, please forgive us.
Speaker 2:Generally speaking, like they're negotiating the terms of the bill. They have to pass the terms that they've agreed upon over to the Senate and then the Senate votes on it. So, like the Senate could either, you know, approve or decline. Essentially, so these are your people that are making the laws in which you abide by when you want policy changes, when you want. Like it's not the fucking president, the president is really has far less power.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like he has so much less power than people think that they do. Like, when you're voting on your, your president, like if you're really into politics and like that's the election that you care about, like I encourage you to like be more concerned about your House of Representatives in your Senate, because the president is getting jack shit done if he doesn't have the House in the Senate. And that's what they always talk about and that is what they mean when they say that on the news around election time. So Jim Bob is in your House of Representatives at one point. Yeah, this man is influencing policy and law and engaging with other people, trying to persuade them to agree with him. Like that's what these people do. They stand up all day and just try to persuade each other to one side of the fence or the other end things and to agree and to compromise with him.
Speaker 1:So let's get into. When Jim Bob was in office, one of his platforms was the National Sexual Predator Registry.
Speaker 2:He was a key person in getting the registry created.
Speaker 1:He was behind the sex offender registry existing, so apparently his good friend Jim Holt, who had, I'm assuming, known for a while about Josh, said to him you need to go and meet this right, because you're literally at your platform is the sexual predator registry and your son is a sexual predator.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So like rewind real quick, like the so Jot. What happened is before the show 19 kids and counting. Yes, I do think there were some individual episode specials about the family prior to this that were very successful, but before the regular earring of 19 kids and counting, they had been in the media as like a sensation these people with all these children in between, their first appearance on TV right before he runs for the first time, I think, yeah, he wasn't in politics, yet I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't think, I don't think I would have to look that up for sure, but either before or very early on in his political career. There is a anonymous letter that gets sent to the Oprah Winfrey show that potentially contains the details that Josh Duggar, the oldest of the Duggar children, is a sexual predator, and he had been doing it since he was 12 years old and several of his victims were his siblings, which that won't be for today. They really only introduce you to that in this first episode.
Speaker 2:So in order for us to like I do really want to talk about that in order for us to kind of just like- knock on down a rabbit hole and break this up and digestible and for you guys to be able to follow along and I don't want to spoil anything for you if you're actually truly watching it for the first time with us. We won't dig more into that today but we will get to it because there's like a lot.
Speaker 2:I think they essentially do a whole episode on like the family and how, like what happens there. But what they do get into in this episode is what crush was just saying, where Jim Holtz finds out about this right, says he needs to turn him in, says he needs to turn him in and says yeah, and says like you need to turn your kid in. But even what he says I hate, it's not you need to turn your kid in because this is disgusting, it's not you need to turn your kid in because this is wrong. You need to turn your kid in because of people find out about this 20 years from now they're gonna eat you alive, gonna hurt your career.
Speaker 2:They're going to eat you alive. So so he's encouraging us and to turn his son in in the purposes of self-interest and preservation, not on the fact that this is appalling.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I think that there's a common trend which I'm sure we're going to talk about more, but I will mention it because they did mention it in here is Jill says no one was supposed to find out about. Yeah, her husband says we were hoping to take this to the grave.
Speaker 1:We were hoping to say this is a great. They say it like three or four times. No one was supposed to find out. We didn't want them to find out and to me that's mind-blowing that like you're trying to keep this secret. But again, that's what churches do they?
Speaker 2:try to yeah that secret, keep that secret, keep that yeah, so Jill, as one of the siblings that experienced assault at the hands of Josh literally, they ask her about it in the show when you're watching it, and she says I don't want to talk about that immediately, immediate, like that is her and like I'm not even sure the person finished the question, and then she gets quiet and her husband just starts speaking for her right and he's saying like these were things that were told that we shared in confidence within our marriage, that we didn't want anyone to ever know that we that we were hoping to take to the grave.
Speaker 2:And basically Jill says that you know the news broke on the in like the tabloids, whatever, because the letter goes to overwind free and all of a sudden everybody knows and they're they're genuinely upset about that and you know what, from a standpoint of like a serve, like you can speak from this lens, a survivor of sexual assault, I'm sure that's something that you would rather not the public know, particularly when it's your brother. You know, on top of all that. So I can, I don't want to roast her right for like regret and like her husband, like fuck that guy, but like I don't want to roast them for the opinion of just hoping that nobody would ever find out, because I'm sure that was like deeply personal. There was a lot of processing that I'm sure that had to happen and a lot of work she had to do to be okay and then to suddenly have a public opinion. Yeah, like just slammed into every little bit of your experience with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not great, because, as we know, like there's gonna be people that are on your side and then there's gonna be people that aren't right and I think that that's probably very triggering and very difficult to understand, or did a difficult to process, not difficult to understand. So I don't want to make it sound like I'm being insensitive here and like I do feel for the fact that that happened and but the response of you know the hush-hush, for nobody should have ever found out about this. That's the part where I'm like it's not that I don't want to talk about this or not that, like we hoped, like whatever, nobody should have ever found out about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think too, it plays into hand where. So when they do go and turn Josh and they take him to like a state trooper yes, slaying everything that happened.
Speaker 2:So so Jim Bob and Jim Holtz. Jim Holtz goes to Jim Bob and says you need to turn him in. And Jim Bob says you know what? You're right, let's go down. Your do you want to come between the station right now? And Jim Holtz said yes, sir, I do right. So they go down to the police station. Josh tells the state trooper everything he's like bad boy.
Speaker 1:Don't do it again, you're released literally literally, and you want me to give you a little fun fact because, you know me, I like to dive in deep.
Speaker 2:I hope you're gonna say what I think you're gonna say trooper that said yes, you are do it again was literally arrested for sexual assault 56 years for possession of was it? I'm gonna look it up. You know, I don't want to misquote this, yeah let's not misquote it so I don't want to let piece of shit go.
Speaker 1:While you're looking it up too, I'll start touching base on. So after they take Josh to the trooper and the trooper is like, don't do it again, jim Bob sends him to Bill gothard to fix him. They they say they literally say, we hope that he gets fixed. So they send him to Bill gothard to do like work or something, mm-hmm, and then he just like acts like he's the head honcho of Bill gothard ministries.
Speaker 2:Then they just bring him back like nothing ever happened yeah, so that's a big part of hang on state trooper. I want to read this exactly. The state trooper who reportedly let Josh Duggar walk away after he was brought in by his father, jim Bob, on alleged child molestation charges is pictured in his most recent mug shot. Joseph T Hutchins said to have spoken with the Duggar sometime around 2005 after teenage Josh allegedly assaulted a minor female, and the officer then failed to follow up on these claims.
Speaker 2:As has been reported, and soon after he was imprisoned himself on child pornography charges, so wasn't convicted for neglect of reporting the Duggar situation. Convicted on his own in sentenced in 2007 on his own child pornography charges, and he was currently serving a 60 60, which anybody that knows anything about the law knows that these types of crimes don't really carry particularly long sentences on an individual account standpoint. So in order to get 60 years, it had to be a massive number of counts that he was charged and convicted with. So he is currently serving a 60 year sentence. And do you want to know the grossest part? I didn't know this, but this is fucking horrible. He was actually still, despite being convicted for a 60 year sentence and child pornography charges, he was eligible for parole as of November 2020 that's disgusting yep so, yeah, a couple of notes to.
Speaker 1:I wrote about, like this whole issue with like abuse is like one of the quotes that they say in the first episode they use that the pandemic of abuse is everywhere, like that this culture touches. So, if you like, pull up religion, you see abuse after abuse, after abuse, after hiding abuse, hiding pedophilia, like that is rampant in religion.
Speaker 1:I mean just even where I grew up. I mean how many I had. Five, six, seven, eight people message me personally, telling me that they were abused. Mm-hmm right, and I've known of countless acts of child pornography being found, and those people still could be in the church.
Speaker 2:It's just like you had one person that you said that they knew about specifically, that they just said they let him get married and said she's, your marriage will fix it. I don't understand. What is that thought process? Marriage, as I mean, is there something that they teach in the church? That marriage saves you, or something?
Speaker 1:I guess like if you're committed to your wife, you're not gonna like repentance.
Speaker 2:I don't understand. But, yeah, so, like as you mentioned, you know, he basically tells them like, oh, don't do it again. And shoes, shoes. It has him along and then what happens after that is is Jim Bob says what are we gonna do with him? We got to get him out of the house, so knows that this is wrong and he can't have him around the other kids. Yeah, right, so the the resulting punishment I guess you could call it, yeah is that he sends him to Bill gothard school for troubled youth. Did you catch that? Yeah, okay, yeah, so sends him to Bill gothard. Founder of the IBLP. The guy produce mass producing like pedophiles and misogynists and whatever else you want to call it. Sends him to a school for troubled youth that is run by that man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who brilliant we will talk more about in depth, about him and the institute right, we'll actually be crushes.
Speaker 2:A baller crush actually bought I should, but the, what is it called? Yeah, that was that loud, though that's in the background.
Speaker 1:Institute and base basic youth conflicts, research and principles of life to.
Speaker 1:This book is a gem, so we are gonna be posting we are definitely gonna be posting like pages from this book it's wild, like I feel like we could do a podcast for the rest of our lives just going yeah, I mean, I sent you a couple, a couple of things in there and it's just absolutely mind-blowing yeah, the things are like how to deal with a rebellious child and like, oh, we'll get into that, though don't spoil that, cuz they they're not that one episode.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, oh god they'll be. I feel like 45 minutes episode will be taken up just by that, like that one scene.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry guys we gotta leave you with something. Yeah, yeah. I literally too wrote like in this community the word abuse doesn't exist, like it's not wait, wait.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so, like wait. So it's funny that you bring that up, because when they talk, start talking about how they sent Joshua away, right, yeah. So when they sent him away, amy, the cousin starts talking about how nobody. So some of the adults knew, but none of the kids. I mean, obviously some of the siblings were victims, but the ones that weren't in the know. So it seemed like Amy was not in the know at the time and neither would have Deanna have been. I don't think, but I don't know that for sure. So I don't want to say that for sure, but it seems like at least Amy was not in the know at the time.
Speaker 2:They would ask where's Josh and they would respond and say, oh, he's building homes for homeless kids or for homeless families, like doing the Lord's work. He's just a good guy like that, because at the School for Troubled Youth they had them basically doing habitat for humanity types of things like labor to build houses for these people, because that'll fix a pedophile and so. But they're not saying that he went to a School for Troubled Youth. They're saying he's out doing the Lord's work. He's some kind of missionary out on Mormon level, like out on mission servicing. Not that I think that Mormons are great, I don't. I'm not a fan of that religion either.
Speaker 2:But they're acting like he's out there doing acts of service for the world. So then this is when Jim Bob goes to run. I don't know if this was like he had already been in the House of Representatives and he was running for Senate, or if he was running for his first time at the House of Representatives. I'm fuzzy on that timeline. I'm not sure which.
Speaker 1:I'm sure if you watch the show, we get back into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure, if you watch the show they get, they probably more clearly outline this. I forgot to write it down on my notes, but either way, he goes to start to run for public office, whether that's again or for the first time, and Jim Holt says what are you going to do? They're going to ask you about this. He's away. They're going to ask you about this Because at this point, like the oldest son had started to become involved in politics as well. He had joined, like an extreme right wing conservative agenda policymaking group, like, literally was looking to follow in his dad's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like took a job in.
Speaker 2:Washington DC. And they like they said they called him like the golden boy or something, yeah, like he was the golden boy of the show and you know, he started getting involved in politics himself. So Jim Holt points out to Jim Bob, what are you going to do? People are going to ask about him. Where is he Like, what's going on Like, and what are you going to tell them? And he was like, well, we'll tell them. He's away, like I forget exactly what he says, but it was just some garbage Like he's away doing God's work or something, and Jim Holt said nobody's going to believe that.
Speaker 2:So what Jim Bob does is he withdraws them from, withdrawals him from this school for troubled children which you can't see me, but I'm saying this with air quotes because I think this whole thing is a giant fucking farce but he pulls them from the school, tells Jim Holt oh, I just brought him back because I wanted him to be here for my birthday. Yeah, just to. I think. Shut up any naysayer, any naysayer or naysaying from Jim Holt or anybody else, and never send it back.
Speaker 1:No, so they're just bringing back in school.
Speaker 2:Right. And then Marysim, off to this girl named Anna, I think, and you know they show interview clips where people ask like, mind you, this kid was assaulting people. I think I said this already from the age of 12.
Speaker 1:And OK, we'll get more into it.
Speaker 2:Like and when I say that, I mean he was 12 years old when he started doing this. So they start getting interview questions about, like, oh, do you think that? Like, whatever you did to reform or fix Josh, do you think it worked? And then, like, the parents are both on interviews. So, jim, bob and Michelle, I have no doubt, like he's a change, he's a different person now. Yeah, like, yeah, oh, ok, is that how things work around here?
Speaker 2:Like you know, you just sweep it under the rug and you don't have to bend to the rest of the laws that everyone else needs to live in, abide by Right Now. If he had murdered his siblings, would you have just said, oh, they went missing and we could never find them. Yeah, we sent him to a school for troubled youth, like what on earth?
Speaker 1:But molestation is fine.
Speaker 2:Right, that's OK.
Speaker 1:That was another big thing I wrote too is that, like they're constantly like harboring pedophiles- yes. All of this is just harboring pedophile.
Speaker 2:Well, the one.
Speaker 1:Swimming it under the rug.
Speaker 2:They don't introduce them in the episode because they're all on the second episode. But they start bringing not just Brooke who comes on the show. They start bringing in several ex-IBLP members, which will get really interesting. But the one woman she's actually really great on the show, she's the one with the purple hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like I actually think that she's very raw and just like you can tell, like, how much like all of this like ruined her life really and it's like and how hard it was for her to come on the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she talked Like finally getting some food.
Speaker 2:Yes, and she talks about saying, like you know, I didn't want to do this, like I didn't want to come up here and have to talk about all of this, but a friend told me, this is the space you've been manifesting for yourself, so go and seize it. Basically, that's how I feel about this podcast. Nope, that's so great. Yeah, that is a good way to put it. But like she talks about it I don't know if it's actually in the beginning of episode two or not, but it's her, I believe, that makes the statement in episode one that the IBLP is basically grooming little predators. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I wrote that too. She full on states that.
Speaker 1:Yep, I wrote that they franchise physical, emotional, emotional and psychological abuse. Yeah, which is true, because when we break down these other episodes, you are going to see the physical abuse, the emotional abuse and the psychological abuse that these kids mainly kids right are going through. I mean, I'm sure that are normalized. Right Completely normalized, so that and they're actually taught.
Speaker 2:These are parts of the teaching.
Speaker 1:Yes, Yep, yep. And another quote. I think it might have been that same girl that you're talking down. She said that they break down the will to fight so that you just go along because you have no feelings, you have no choice and you have no way out, which is horrifying, but I think that that will that no way out feeling, will touch home with like a lot of people who have grown up in these types of religions. Yeah, because you literally feel like you have, you have to stay or your entire life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I talked about this at one point, but I know that like we did a recording that we never released because we didn't really love all the content, and like we've also had to like clip a lot of stuff out, so like I don't know if this ever actually made it into one of the episodes. I can't remember, but I talked about that show briefly, which I feel like is very dramatized for television, but there are some things from it that you could take and just be like damn. And it's that show called Escaping Polygamy. It's on Hulu.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what original network it was on, but it's these three girls that used to actually be members of I'm not going to remember because it's been so long, but they actually at some point they all have escaped some kind of radical cult like polyamorous religion, and then I think it's three or four girls they work to. They're like this they have some way of like spreading the word to these like different religions, that they are not different religions but the woman that are a part of these religions, that they can help get them out if they want to get out.
Speaker 2:And they work to essentially smuggle these people out and, even if it is dramatized for just for television, like these three girls, have a full ass security team that has to follow them around because of fear of violence, trying to get these women out. It's often an extremely coordinated event where they roll up and you have 30 minutes to pack all of your things before somebody comes home and finds you because they're not going to allow you to leave. Some of the people that they smuggle out are what's his name? What's his name from the other TV series that we watched on Netflix Eat sleep praying. Ok. What is his name? Warren Jeffs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Warren Jeffs, Warren Jeffs yes there was a couple episodes where people were smuggled out of that religious group, and the reason why I'm bringing that up is because there is one episode that is particularly heartbreaking, where it was actually a male that was looking to get out and, while his parents were at church, these girls went to his home and helped him pack everything up and said we've got to go, we've got to go, we've got to go. And they're packing his shit up, they're trying to get out of this house as quickly as possible before the parents come home. And he leaves a note for every one of his siblings and as he's putting the note down for his brother and whatever, no matter what this note says, he's going to think he's never going to talk to me again because I left and he's going to outside the umbrella, all that shit. And so he leaves a note for his parents. I don't know if he leaves a note for his dad. He leaves a note for his mom though. So he's in the car, he makes it out, he's off the campus is what they call it, right, property off property. And he gets a phone call from his mom and his mom is upset, obviously, but then start saying things like why is everyone leaving me? And the kid says I'm not leaving you, I'm leaving this religion in this church. I don't believe in this.
Speaker 2:And she reveals that she doesn't believe in it either. But her husband and all of her children are there and that is what they choose to subscribe to, and that she doesn't want to go to church and she doesn't want to sit there. But what is she supposed to do? She can't leave. She can't leave her husband, she can't leave everything. She borderline admits to being miserable and you know they part ways on this note that she doesn't want to be there either, but she's got to give up. Her son, yeah, that leaves because that's the choice that he made. Even though she agrees with that, she feels so trapped that she stays, yeah.
Speaker 1:And isn't it heartbreaking that a religion would make you choose, like the belief in something over your family? Because I had that same conversation over and over with my parents I'm not choosing like to get rid of my family, I'm just choosing to not go to church. And they had that same response every time.
Speaker 2:Like we are the church, the church is our family, the church is us If you choose not to be in the church you're choosing to not be with us and, like I just don't get that Me.
Speaker 1:They're like and I mean it's still happening to get that, because it's also contradictory right.
Speaker 2:Like all the religions Christianity, catholicism they're all a giant fucking loop of hypocrisy right. Like it's okay, like God saves, god forgives, god accepts, unless we say he doesn't Right, when we say he doesn't Correct.
Speaker 1:And he only saves when he feels like it, right, like it's, and then loop that into cycles of abuse and degrading behaviors towards women and children, and the breakdown of family relationships, and like. I can go on and on, Like. So what good is it? What good is it doing? It's getting.
Speaker 2:I think in a lot of cases, church does do more bad than good, but I do think that there is good, like. I am very adamant about this Because I think everybody has a right to believe and celebrate the things that they want to believe. I think that there is good religion out there. I think there's good religious community for people. Just because I don't choose to partake doesn't mean that I don't think that healthy religion exists. What I am saying is that I think it's very uncommon, yeah, and I think that we don't realize how uncommon that healthy religion is.
Speaker 2:I think people are conditioned to accept things about religion that are shoved in your face, that are not appropriate, that are borderline against your rights as an individual that are prescribed to you in the Constitution. But we accept those things because they're just, you're almost desensitized to them, because there is no separation of these things in church and state and all of those things that they say public schools aren't supposed to teach those things. That's even more prominent now than it was when I was a kid. It actually is infiltrating your public schools and because you're just so exposed to it repeatedly at such a young age, you have this acceptance of so many things that go on that you don't even acknowledge as fucked up, until somebody says wait a second and think about this, and then you're like damn, I don't know how many people that I've talked to since starting this podcast that have listened, that are starting to realize or process the trauma that they had, that they didn't even realize about.
Speaker 2:Or just people that maybe aren't super religious, that are like, damn, I never thought about this to that extent. Or people that are saying I didn't realize that this is happening in my backyard.
Speaker 1:It's everywhere.
Speaker 2:And I want to be really clear in saying that, like, the Duggers are an example, not the exception, and by that I mean the Duggers are not the family that got picked out of this otherwise ordinary religion that took things too far.
Speaker 2:This is the common this is the common and there are people X members, and there's a handful of them. They don't bring in one or two people from the X of the IBLSP or IBLP I don't know what I inserted in us and therefore they have a significant number of people that come on from this religious group that full out state the Duggers are one family and there are all over this religious group a million other families that are worse and nobody knows about, and it just goes on.
Speaker 1:I wrote like a little thing about that, about the people that come on the show like survivors, that they really challenged the system that terrorized them. And I feel like those words challenged the system that terrorized them Like it really hit home, even for like doing this podcast.
Speaker 2:Was that something that they said or that's just something that you felt watching?
Speaker 1:us. I felt watching it. Like that word terrorize. It's a that's a strong word. But when you start hearing these stories and the things they have to go through or you've heard my story and the things I've had to go through those are that we were terrorized.
Speaker 2:That's an honest word.
Speaker 1:It's an honest word and so, like moving forward into these next episodes. I know they do cover a lot about Josh and Jill, but like I'm really I mean, I want to say excited to touch on some of these victims Like the things that they went through how we got here.
Speaker 1:I did write down one quote. I don't know if you remember this one girl. She was only in a few times. I don't know if she's in. I can't remember if she's in other episodes, but I did some more research on her. But she's the one that talked about the word Fundy.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, yes, she had also multi-colored hair.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:There were two girls that had multi-colored hair and she was the. She was the bigger girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she has like a pink dress on yes. And so she talks about this word, Fundy, which is kind of a play on the word fundamentalist.
Speaker 2:Right and it's considered to a to a evangelical fundamentalist, which I believe is where that comes from. That's considered like a derogatory word, like you call a white person a cracker or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I wrote down an entire statement that she said and I felt like it really embodied these victims that are coming on here. But she said but the interviewing of survivor stories, it really drives home purity culture and high control groups lead directly to assault. When you have to forsake bodily autonomy and are groomed to submit and normalize abuse, it creates an environment of assault.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a grooming breeding ground for predators.
Speaker 1:And I feel like that's what IBLP is. It's just a breeding ground of abuse and predators. I feel like that's how I grew up, I mean from my generation into the generation. Now I'm hearing stories before and after me of assault and it's just continuous and continuous. So, like I'm hoping, with these, like this series coming out and our podcast and several others, that it's going to hopefully open the eyes that this isn't the normal, like this stops being the norm. Right, you know what I mean, because yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:I think that we always talk about how this podcast has grown. I mean, even just the people that we have that listen, it's been a higher number than we would have ever imagined, right? So I think it's just. I am happy that you perceive this pot not perceive, but for you that this podcast is your space, that you've manifested for yourself. But I think it's become more than that because we really like I mean, we talked about church acts a lot early on, but I think that funny enough, like if you put all of our episodes together, actual content wise, yeah, we've put them on blast a few times but as they should be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right this has grown into being about more than that. It's about the. It's because it's not just about your non-denominational cultie upbringing. It's not just about J and CJ's experience and their upbringing. It's about genuinely the principles behind religion and the way that it is taught Yep On a mass scale. In most instances that is hurtful and traumatizing and scarring for people. Yep, it's life-changing, very much agree. And it's funny because they hook you in by saying don't you want the best for your kid, don't?
Speaker 2:you want your kid to grow up and be a good person and be successful and prosper? Right, they hook you in with this whole thing. That that's how you build a good foundation of youth in the world, and really it's damaging.
Speaker 1:It's very damaging, like I've had to. I mean, you've seen it. I've texted you late at night being like, oh my God, I just realized this. I can't believe these are my feelings.
Speaker 1:It literally changed. I'm going to speak for myself because I can't speak for everyone else, but when you hear other victim stories, it changed my entire way. I think about myself and I process life. There's a couple episodes in here where I'll get in deeper to it, where I had that light bulb moment like, oh my God, this is why I respond this way, this is why I think this way, and it's just beyond damaging. Like sometimes I will sit and think like what type of person would I be if I wasn't raised like that?
Speaker 2:Like that.
Speaker 1:I mean obviously being raised. The way I was raised made me into the person I am today and I will take like the good aspects of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like there is a lot I feel in my life that because I grew up like this, I can reach out and help other people, but like also nobody should have to carry that trauma either.
Speaker 2:And I think it's very like. You know, it's very easy for somebody to be like everything you go through in life makes you who you are. But like, why does anyone have to go through that in life? Right, Like, can we ask that question? Like let's not be glass half full for two seconds and say, like why is this still? Why is this so prominent? Why is this still happening on the regular basis? That it is, and they're weaponizing children and their recruitment efforts? Yeah, Like it's. Oh, do you see how well behaved and modest and meek our children are? Like, don't you want your kids to behave like this?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Don't you want there to be, not be chaos around your house. Guess what guys?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just having a child is chaotic. Yeah, it's great Right. The chaos is great, though you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's not about how silent your child is. It's not about how well behaved your child is every two seconds Like in the thought process that you should have a four year old that never has an outburst is just a ridiculous. That's insanity.
Speaker 1:Yep. They're a child Yep Exactly my favorite part like we're treating these children like their puppies Right. Yep, my absolute favorite part about being a mom and watching Piper is that I never like curb her voice If she wants to speak like to an adult, I mean she does it usually very respectfully. She has questions. I'm not going to stop her from like she. That is something I was raised not to do.
Speaker 2:Right, you can't ask questions already like that.
Speaker 1:You can't ask questions. You have to be quiet. You have to do this.
Speaker 2:You have respect your chain of command Right.
Speaker 1:Respect your chain of command, but like to see her respectfully talk to something you're taught in the military, like why are we teaching children this? It's exactly the same, but I would never, ever stop her from letting her voice be heard, you know what I mean. And unless she's being obviously out of control, but like, even then she's a kid, right. Which, like you, correct when somebody is being disrespectful, right, and there's ways to do that without being a child.
Speaker 2:Right, or letting them grow and ask questions in a healthy way. Like you don't teach somebody. Like don't ask questions Because guess what? Like that whole thing. Like don't question adults. So then when an adult assaults you, right, you're not going to question Silence, you don't question Correct, I deserve this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, guilt and shame, all those things and that's not how a child should be, really no.
Speaker 2:It's like you don't you. You get taught like don't question, and then people don't make that connection of. That's how victims end up being silent victims. But those are the exact things that we're talking about. When these people get on the air and say, like this is a breeding ground for abuse and for predators, those are that exactly right. There is one of the things we're talking about. You're teaching your children to respect, not respect authority. Take it, but take anything an authority figure says as gospel and you are not allowed to question it. So what happens when an authority figure does something that you're like hmm, that's not okay.
Speaker 1:You just keep your mouth shut. Yup, and that's one thing. Like I've had Piper even like call me out on stuff, like little things, even in. Like normally, if it was me saying that to my parents, I would, I would have probably gotten my mouth slapped. But then I like look at her and I'm like you're actually right, like mommy shouldn't do that, or mommy did get too angry that time, or you're right, I shouldn't be blowing through the stop sign. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Whatever she called me out on, you know what I mean and I'm going to respect her for speaking out. I'm not going to tell her to shut her mouth. You know what I mean, right? She should feel.
Speaker 2:Old enough to correct when she feels something is right, mm, hmm, to at least question. Yeah, yep, I agree, any, just like any other person should.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it's. I don't think this is interesting, right, like I actually I'm going to say like I didn't realize how prevalent this was, like this was such an anomaly to me growing up to meet a kid, right, I was at home school, yeah, as an adult, so many of my friends, mostly because my my friends were from school.
Speaker 1:So of course, none of us were home school, correct, yep.
Speaker 2:So to meet somebody outside of your circle of your school that you were going to or like was at some neighboring high school, because you met them through school. Because, like I, went to, a Catholic school was not girl school, so like we would combine events with, like St Joe's, which was a all boys school, and then sometimes like they would combine events with like all the schools, so you would have friends that went to other schools but you were all meeting them through school.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or like summer activities or whatever, which these people don't send their kids to, and they home school them. And, as an adult now that, like I'm, you know, we're not all in school anymore you're meeting people from like more diverse backgrounds than just your school. We have way more friends than I ever would have thought of. That have experienced home schooling at some point in time. Yep, and what the Institute so I be, I feel, p teaches. They actually provide you with a curriculum oh yeah, I wrote it down and they tell you that you have to homeschool your kids Yep, I don't remember the exact wording, but essentially to like, teach them to be good stewards of God and protect them from outside influences and whatever else. So they provide a curriculum for these people to basically indoctrinate every kid they have along their way of having 11, 12, 13, 14 kids.
Speaker 1:It's called the advanced training Institute.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So they're called the key to success. I read several the other night. Complete insanity. And it literally is so to make sure your kids call uncle turnout right, turn out right. And I know they made a statement in here where one of the girls is like instead of learning math, we literally were learning slut shaming.
Speaker 2:Well he, he says in there that what the hell was it? This one? My eyeballs almost popped out. He was like we teach that evolution is I don't know, I didn't write this one up. They set it on the show, but it was. I don't know if it was Bill got third or if it was what's his name, jim Bob Hang on.
Speaker 1:Well, while you're looking that up, I will touch on speaking of like being homeschooled. Like I wasn't necessarily homeschooled, but I was thinking about it and our school. I mean I only had like 14 kids in my class. It was not a big school, was K through 12. All those teachers were in the church and were like parents of other kids. So basically it was like being homeschooled, but in like a larger environment. You know what I mean. Like it was basically the same exact teachings and ways of being homeschooled, but just together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to be able to find it this quickly here, but we will do future episodes, yeah they get way more into it in these books that they teach. Just because you know, these are limited series. There's four episodes. They're not even an hour a piece.
Speaker 2:They talk very generally about a lot of the things and I think it's really easy to brush past really exactly what these people are teaching, and I think that that's actually the problem. Yeah right, like we are living in a time where, currently, people are liking to liking and justing like shock things like serial killer stuff, right, cult stuff, whatever.
Speaker 2:So make no mistake about it. Like somebody produces shiny happy people because they want people to watch it. I mean, I'm sure there's some part of them that's like yeah, we want to expose the story, but you hope that you make money.
Speaker 2:So at the end of the day they're not really digging up what exactly these people are teaching we speak of these things from a very general perspective and then from there, whatever research you choose to do or not do is of your own volition. And I mean, how many people are just going to jump to the next documentary? Oh, yeah, definitely, and then that's the last time they ever hear about Bill Gothard ever again. But I bet you, if you read parts of this book, that would not be the last time that you ever looked up Bill Gothard ever again. No, it's literally terrifying.
Speaker 1:I mean, you've seen some of the things that they sent you from those little booklets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they literally will take like and I can't wait for us to talk more about this they will take like a scripture and somehow turn that scripture into math and I don't even know how We'll be. Like put on the full armor of God and then like one plus one equals two, like how do you? I don't get how you put those together, but they do and it's like booklet after booklet after booklet that has this same stuff in there, and then mixed in with like don't worse curse above your name.
Speaker 2:I mean, the rough thing that they said about like evolution was that it wasn't scientific at all. Yeah, it's like something to do with God. We'll find it eventually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's where they start talking about the creation Darwin's not even a thing Right. I mean evolution, is scientifically proven.
Speaker 2:What I mean. Whatever Jesus's face, got on a towel.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not just sweating dirt, anyway. Yeah, so, yeah, so there was just, and then we kind of get towards the end of the episode at this point where they really start exposing the things with Josh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is going to get interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've talked a lot about, you know, having 85 kids, like getting them to grow up and be part of society, and like this is all in the name of once again spreading the word of God. But really what it is is it's like we want to take over and control all of these like mass Christ amounts of people. Like we want all of everybody to subscribe to what we're thinking and if you're not, you're going to be in the minority. And then how many times have we seen that in history? And it results in, like the persecution and genocide of an entire group of people. Yeah, like, make no mistake. Like that, like just because they haven't been successful, like that's what that leads to. Like we've seen this in history over and over again. Thankfully, it seems that maybe we're a little wiser. Maybe Maybe, who knows?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's a weird time in history right now. We're living history right now. So, but at least up to this point, like we're not experiencing something like that in this moment. But who knows? I mean, they might be in the middle of the beginning of something crazy. Very well could be, but, yeah, like we. So they come out Josh is exposed as a child molester. This gets to the point where this isn't the early on point that we were talking about originally, where they just brought him back and said he was reformed. They start talking about again where it comes up and now he's actually genuinely in trouble. And then there's a woman which, like this, was like the very end of the episode. She says and I mentioned this already Monsters are created, pointing to what we're talking about right now.
Speaker 2:Yes, these types of religious upbringings are breeding these types of people and also breeding perfect victims, and I don't mean that to be insensitive, no, Like I, literally in my head, I'm like that is egg.
Speaker 1:I'm 100% the perfect victim. It's breeding the perfect victim and I can point it out and I will talk more when we get to the children that whole episode that's coming up. I will point out direct actions that have happened to me in my life as a child and what it led to growing up as an adult, because there is a distinct correlation and it finally hit me like oh, this is why this is happening. So I'm sure that will play a part, or maybe a little light bulb will go off in someone else and realize like this is how I was raised and this is what came out of it and it's not good.
Speaker 2:So that was the end of my notes. That was the end of my notes too. Oh sweet, we did that.
Speaker 1:I think I ended up. Let me see, and I wrote end Josh Duggar, yep.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we're going to take a break, yeah, and then we'll come back and do a little shoot in the shed on the Sunday, but next episode that we do so this I mean we've been recording for a- minute today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this might end up being two parts, which we've been doing a lot of lately. Yeah, which is fine, which is good, but the next time that we record, we'll be doing episode two. So if you are truly following along with us for the first time on this series, it's coming a juicy and you have more self control than I do and you haven't watched episode number two yet. This would be the time to catch yourself up before we record the next episode. Correct, I'm a chronic TV show binger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've watched episode one like 10 times yeah.
Speaker 2:People are always like oh, do you like? There's a show that like, you'd really like, or like book club, right? Oh, we're going to only read chapters one and two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, thank you, I'll be done. No, I've read the books three times. I don't have the self control to close the book or not watch the next episode so. We're going to take a break, all right, thank you.
